I’ve finally hit a stalemate with my almost-teenaged daughter. What’s the issue? She only wants to do the things that she wants to do, and I want her to do the things that need doing.
She’s fine if she’s asked to do something that will benefit her in some way, near or far-term. But if she gets nothing from the task, she digs her heels in and refuses.
Oy.
I love her, and have a deep respect for her. But this is officially driving me crazy.
I talked it over with her mother and father (I’m the step-dad for those at home without a program), and we’ve decided to take a stand. While we don’t like to see her sad, we realize that we have to fix this now, before she heads out to the world. So we’re pulling out the big weapon: We’re saying “no.”
If she asks for a new outfit: No. If she asks for a special dinner: No. If she asks to stay up late: No.
Of course, this will change once she gives in and honestly accepts altruism as a reasonable path.
But what if she doesn’t? What’s the next step? None of us have a single clue and we are worried. Our daughter has an iron will, and she might outlast us. Anyone out there have any ideas for a Plan B?
by Stu Mark
[tags]kids, children, parents, parenting, help, assistance, teenager, tween, no, altruism, stress[/tags]
Photo graciously provided by jurvetson, through a Creative Commons license, some rights reserved
19 responses so far ↓
The Parents Zone // Dec 10, 2007 at 5:00 am
In today’s world, parenting a teenager is an exhausting as well as a thrilling experience.
Parenting a teenager is not that easy and in no way it is impossible.
All that it requires is patience, creativity and willpower.
Actually you are doing great but I think these tips may help you…
http://www.theparentszone.com/teens/parenting-a-teenager-simple-ideas-to-make-your-parenting-more-easy/
Whitney // Dec 10, 2007 at 7:04 am
I have appealed to mine on the “What if I don’t feel like doing your laundry?” “What if I don’t feel like driving you to your friend’s house?”- and we always emphasize rules are 90% about health and safety, the rest are room-mate and living together peacefully issues.
You could try a total parent strike as well- stop doing everything that enures to her benefit- she is on her own. Show her what gets done for her day to day and what you ask her to contribute is small and reasonable. A parental work slow down or stoppage might help demonstrate the immediate impact of stuff.
Specific example would be more helpful, but kids also have to have bumps and fail so they believe that you are trying to make sure they have long term success. We often bargain with our soon to be teen: “Are you done studying for the test?” “Yes” Do you want any help reviewing? ” No”. Okay- if you get an 85 or above, you get to continue to do it your way. IF you get below, you have to study my way next time. “OK”.
This has helped him learn more independence, what works and what doesn’t in terms of studying, and he trusts some of our judgment and help in preparation now, because he has seen the difference in what happens when he is well prepared, versus what he thought was “adequate” prep.
Safe trial and error helps them learn we’re not crazy nut jobs, but have their best interest at heart.
Carl // Dec 10, 2007 at 7:28 am
I agree heavily with Whitney. This approach has a combination of firmness (the strike) with flexibility (the bargains).
Be careful with a blanket “no” to things. That’s not going to encourage her to listen to you or respect you.
As someone wiser than me said: “The enemy of relationships is not conflict, it’s disengagement.”
If you’re both saying No to each other, you may rapidly erode what remains between you.
IntheFastLane // Dec 10, 2007 at 7:41 am
I am struggling with my 13 year old at the moment and her need to assert her independence. This, is her developmental task, and it really is a need. But, I have always told my kids that in our house, God and family comes first. So, sometimes that means that your independence comes in third place to doing things that help the family work. I do think it will be a struggle for sometime to come and that it is more of a struggle with some kids than others.
Lily // Dec 10, 2007 at 8:01 am
Stu, I am curious to know what requests of yours she refuses to do. My 13 year old son is responsible for putting away his clean laundry, cleaning his room, making his bed and generally picking up after himself. But at any time I can request he do something for me. He usually obliges…..eventually. I agree that there are rules in the house and if she does not do her fair share of them she should suffer the consequences. I suspect when her favorite pair of jeans aren’t ready for her to wear to school she’ll realize she needs to pull her own weight.
Here is a great tipsheet called “A Million Excuses” which might sound familiar to you!
Good luck http://www.connectwithkids.com/tipsheet/2002/91_sep25/million.html
Stu Mark // Dec 10, 2007 at 8:22 am
My daughter is fine about participating in work that will benefit her: painting her room, cleaning her room, pulling her laundry from the dryer, etc. But if she doesn’t see a benefit: stop sucking your thumb, please exercise every day, help your brother take the trash to the curb, etc - no dice, she refuses. For example, the exercise thing - her BMI puts her in a certain area where all health experts agree is not good for her. They all recommend daily exercise until that number dips. So we ask of her: 20 minutes of rigorous exercise, every day. Her choice as to the exercise is hers - the treadmill, the elliptical, the exercise videos, whatever. But when we tell her she has to exercise, she should just do it. Instead, it’s almost always a fight.
We don’t ask her to do much. Put the dishes in the dishwashers, run it when full, put your clothes in your hamper, do your best in school, be polite, exercise, and help out family members when asked. That’s her total list of responsibilities. She’s twelve, seems fair to me. And in exchange for all that, she gets: food, shelter, her own room, tv in her room, shoes/clothes/etc. of her choice, birthday parties, presents, on and on. Once I drew up a list and discovered that we do over 400% more than we ask her to do. Oh yeah, and we also don’t yell, shame, guilt, punish, etc. We are the mellow parents. But we want some balance. In this case, when we ask her to exercise everyday so she doesn’t have a heart attack at 18, she should just do it. Instead, because she doesn’t see the benefit of exercise, and because exercise requires effort, she refuses, and we end up in a tug of power as to who is the parent and who is the child.
Finally, her three parents agreed to the “no” policy. So when she was at her father’s house this weekend and called us to ask us to record a program on her tivo, we said, “no.” Our theory is that if we say “no” to these types of things, and combine this with reminders of fairness and altruism, she’ll turn herself around.
We’re not asking for Mother Theresa. But there’s got to be a middle ground and that seems like a reasonable request on our part.
IntheFastLane // Dec 10, 2007 at 8:36 am
My daughter recently started walking on the treadmill while watching her favorite TV show that she Tivos’ everyday. That gives her a full 45 min. (fastforwarding through the commercials). Is that an option for your daughter, would it help? Or is there already a TV where she would be exercising? We only let the kids watch one hour of TV during the week. So Violet chooses to combine the TV and exercise. Maybe, a policy of no TV unless she has completed her responsibilities?
Whitney Hoffman // Dec 10, 2007 at 8:46 am
There’s a great new book out by Rick LaVoie called the Motivation Breakthrough- Six Steps to Turning on the Tuned Out Child. I think we would all be better parents, and people, if we learned how motivation works and how to break things down to make each action achievable.
For example- the exercise thing may stem and be associated with a criticism about her weight and attractiveness- an awful thing for a teenage girl.
But how about making it something fun, or worth while for a more short term goal? Not having a heart attack at 18 is a negative- can you make this into something positive? How about doing it with someone, and making it a social thing? Or with a TV or an ipod or whatever- something that becomes a positively reinforcing thing, rather than another chore, that takes all the fun out of everything?
Stu Mark // Dec 10, 2007 at 9:22 am
Well, candidly, we specifically relate her need for exercise to health, not looks. I tell her, consistantly, that I think she looks beautiful and doesn’t need to change a thing, other than to increase her lung and heart power, which will lead to a healthier, longer lasting her.
In addition, she always has the tv on, exercise or not, and we don’t bitch about it. When she uses her DVD’s (which she picked out) the tv is on, obviously. But when she treadmills, she watches tv as well. And we are always supportive of this. Sometimes, when there is time, we join her in the exercise.
But she’s twelve now, and she is stubborn. It’s not the exercise, it’s everything that doesn’t create a percievable benefit for her. All three of her parents agree on this. And this is what we are trying to change.
We also have a son. He went through this when he was younger, for about a month. Then I sat him down and explained altruism and fairness, and that was that. He may make complaining, “ew, gross” noises when he has to take out the garbage, but he doesn’t need reminding, he does it on his own. This is all I ask from my daughter. I don’t need sunshine when it happens, just do the dishes without a reminder, exercise without a reminder, help put groceries away without a reminder. I’m cool if she bitches about it, that’s a sensible thing. But do the stuff that needs doin’ - even if you don’t get anything out of it.
As for the book, I sincerely appreciate it and will make a run to Border’s later this morning.
Please, all of you, accept my humblest thank you, and keep offering your insights. You are helping me in a very real way.
thordora // Dec 10, 2007 at 12:01 pm
I dunno. If someone tried to force me to exercise at 13, the heels would have been dug in hard.
I played sports because I enjoyed them. Have you talked with her about finding sports she might be interested in? How many 13 year olds want an exercise regimen?
As for blanket no’s meaning she won’t respect you-I call BS. I had plenty of blanket no’s at that age. Don’t want to get up in time for the bus? Hitchhike or deal with the consequences of missing school. Don’t want to do your laundry? Have no clean clothes. Don’t want to do the dishes? Fine-don’t eat then.
I had to act like the grown up I was screaming that I was and pull my weight around the house. Granted, we had different circumstances, but I respected my father a LOT more for drawing a line in the sand than I would if he had capitulated and done everything for me.
She’s pushing barriers-she wants to be grown up. I’d say draw your lines, but back off. You can’t make someone see the benefit to them by forcing their hand. Demonstrate how things are done, refuse to do more than the bare minimum of things, and let the chips fall.
If she’s as intelligent and crafty as you say, she’ll get the hint.
nan // Dec 10, 2007 at 1:30 pm
I remember being a teenaged girl. It sucked. You have social worries, zits, overweight, underweight (I was totally skinny and had NO BOOBS for years), hormones that you don’t yet know how to flow with, your parents “just don’t understand!”, you need friends, you need “aunties” who will talk to you and listen.
I found a teenaged diary of mine recently, and I wanted to cry for my teen self. But I was lucky. Looking back now, here is what I had that every teen girl needs:
An adult “aunt” or other family friend: a teacher? A counselor? Because all parents are useless, believe it or not, and there are some things you can’t tell mum and dad.
A social group: an aerobics class, dance class, martial arts, friend down the street to walk with? Craft class? Singing? Is she REALLY good at something?
Parents who often say “sure, honey” and not always “no.” your “no”s seem kinda random to me, and will be fodder for self-pity and depression for your teen. (hey, any excuse to be depressed!)
Less TV. Studies have shown that young women who watch more TV have lower levels of self-esteem and higher levels of depression. (not saying she’s depressed, but teens can be.) studies have also shown that more tv=higher BMI. Why are you allowing her to self-regulate her TV viewing? Would you put a huge basket of jelly donuts in her room and say “whatever”? She is a child still, and not capable of that level of self discipline. TV can be VERY persuasive. She is battling some big health/happiness statistics there.
A cause. I worked weekends at an animal shelter, and it widened my horizons and made me feel good.
I think you should accentuate the positive. “wow, thanks for doing the laundry honey, you are such a help” is more of a booster than “you’re so un-altruistic and i’m not doing your laundry so you can see just how it feels! So there!”
Teens are really difficult, and she will certainly grow out of this, no matter WHAT you do. One day, she will suddenly become a real human. (I did, and I was one of the REALLY bad ones!) As my friends with teenaged daughters chant: “it’s a phase, it’s a phase, it’s a phase!”
Stu Mark // Dec 10, 2007 at 1:35 pm
Thor, brilliant, I hear you… I appreciate the support.
That said, give me more advice. I have this one (I believe) final question: As for the exercise, your theory would have me say “ok, you don’t want to exercise, fine, have a heart attack.” Now, I get that you don’t mean that, but that’s my concern. I don’t care how she dresses, I don’t care how many friends she has, but I do care that she lives to a ripe old age. So if I draw a line and then step back, how do I apply the theory to health?
Stu Mark // Dec 10, 2007 at 1:39 pm
Nan, fantastic! I never would have thought of that, but I know a certain woman who, I assume, would be delighted if I asked her to talk to my daughter. Not sure how my daughter would react, but there couldn’t be serious downside, other than the potential for boredom. Where we ever so bored when we were kids, or did we just hide it? I remember being a little bored every once in a while, but as long as I had a book or a rock or a place to go, boredom was nothing more than the occasional downside of having working mind.
whitney // Dec 10, 2007 at 1:48 pm
Stu- I think finding another “significant adult” for her- someone who she can talk to and trust is great- Dr. Bob Brooks talks about this all the time in his books on Resilience- his new one is about raising self-disciplined kids.
Ultimately, she needs to take responsibility for the issue, but she doesn’t have enough life experience yet to know it’s important (short of having someone close to her die of coronary artery disease, but that’s a harsh way to make a point, isn’t it?) So it’s going to be all about making it enjoyable and not killing her on the “but you’ll die” thing- that seems overdramatic and doesn’t ring true to her- she has no concept yet of those things- and trust me- she’s just getting pre-frontal cortex that allows her to abstract and make finer judgments based on experience.
She doesn;t have all the hardware she needs to run the software you’re asking her to- so patience and a friendly outside helping hand may be best.
Megin Hatch // Dec 10, 2007 at 3:10 pm
Holy advice, Batman. And a whole lotta the good stuff.
Stu, I know you’re a talk it out kind of guy. What does she think? If you have some non-negotiables (which I support, btw), then what happened when you explained to her that you’d make all reasonable efforts to help her succeed, but that success in this area was non-negotiable? x,y,z simply must occur.
For me this seems a good balance of listening and giving her choices, and coming to terms with things that simply must be. I try and balance out the soft side with the buck up side in my house. Tell me how I can help and how you feel and what you think, but understand that sometimes you need to do things. A whole lotta life can be negotiated. But sometimes you just need to buck up.
So many pieces of the advice you’ve received so far stand out as exceptional, but I have to loudly second Nan’s closing thought. I know you’ve heard my mantra before: “it’s just a phase.”
nan // Dec 10, 2007 at 3:34 pm
I THINK it was Jerry Mander’s book, “In The Absence of the Sacred” that spoke of TV and boredom. Kids who watch TV are used to being entertained! Get that TV out of that bedroom!
As one of those “aunts” who has been commissioned by friends to talk to their 13 year old daughters, I have a word of advice: don’t “talk to” her. LISTEN to her!
Send your daughter and your friend out on an errand to do something mildly fun, at first (get Christmas presents for mum and dad?), or your friend could ask her to come and help paint her bathroom or stir fudge or whatever. Just hang out, and over time a relationship will be built up. Not buddies, but adult/child. They could go somewhere grownup, like starbucks, afterwards. Lectures can come, but not on the first date!
Stu Mark // Dec 10, 2007 at 4:26 pm
Talked to my sister, who is a fabulous parent and friend, and she told me that, while it’s good to draw a line in the sand, that in the end, it’s age-appropriate. So, after cursing her, as the messanger, we commiserated and she convinced me that I need to be a little more accepting. She said, “At 12, she just isn’t ready to understand altruism.” So, ok, I’m backing down, jut a bit.
Also, my sis agreed to talk to my daughter, and she also had the wisdom to say, “…we won’t talk about anything heavy the first time.” - So, to all of you, I say “Thanks.”
Michael Vanderdonk // Dec 10, 2007 at 7:34 pm
Saying ‘no’ is good, but doesn’t teach her too much.
You can also use a method where you “Get to give”.
It’s quite simple a you appeal to her own self interest. If she wants to go out, you have to ‘get’ her doing something before you ‘give’ in. If she wants a new outfit, you ‘get’ her doing those needed tasks before you can ‘give’ her the outfit.
And if you think about it - this is how the rest of her life will work. She has to work for a week or two before she gets paid. She has to exercise before the muscles get built.
Myshka // Dec 12, 2007 at 5:16 am
Funny thing is, I’m not a parent, but my husband has that same kind of personality. Digs the heels in, and only with time does he learn to compromise. But then again, I do the same thing. Maybe we never really grow up?
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