Grasshopper New Media Presents...

23 responses so far ↓

• Julie K in Taiwan // May 7, 2007 at 5:52 am

  I was nodding my head and agreeing with you… until the end… *not* the monkeybars, gasp!

• Whitney // May 7, 2007 at 7:55 am

  Not Hovering, Letting them learn and take sensible risks is SO important. Yet I think in our reaction to the post 9/11 world, the 24/7 news of all the parade of horribles and risks out “there”, we respond by developing this hypervigilence that infantilizes our kids for far too long, and ends up sending the message that we somehow don’t trust them, find them incompetent or not trustworthy. Our goal as parents should be to support our kids, but meanwhile, be prepared to gradually learn to let go of that bike seat and let them ride away, literally and metaphorically.
  Whenever I feel a need to do something for my child, or to “protect” them, I try to ask myself the following questions:
  1. What is my goal here? Am I horning in to save time or emotional heartache?
  2. Am I doing this for me, or for them?
  3. Is it more important that the “X” is perfect, or that they learn something in the process?

  Our kids ahev to learn to live their own lives, which they can’t do if we don’t let them have experiences, good and bad.

• Slouching Mom // May 7, 2007 at 8:13 am

  I agree wholeheartedly.

  Except I have a hard time practicing what I preach (what you preach) when it comes to kids’ bullying other kids.

  Luckily, my kids haven’t been bullied yet. But if and when that time comes, I am going to have a very hard time. A very hard time.

• Stu Mark // May 7, 2007 at 8:25 am

  Julie,

  Yeah, I wrestled with that line, believe me. I thought, what’s the scariest thing to witness, but not do anything about? Monkeybars!!

  Now, I know I’m the guy who wrote this column, but talk to me when my speed-crazy 15 year-old gets his driver’s license. Oy vey!

• Cherylann // May 7, 2007 at 9:26 am

  My husband and I agree on this wholeheartedly. We’ve discovered that she just gets up and brushes herself off when she falls unless she’s really hurt, and then she will come for a kiss and a snuggle then will tell me she’s okay. Whenever my stepmother sees her fall she runs right over to her and babies her… obviously she whines a lot more about a little fall at her grandparent’s house than at home. We’re proud of the fact that she takes everything in stride.

• Stu Mark // May 7, 2007 at 12:01 pm

  Whitney,

  First, yeah, “not hovering,” is right. I am a notorious hoverer.

  Second, I *love* your three questions. I’m printing them out and attaching them to my computer. And my washing machine. And my bathroom mirror. :-0

• Stu Mark // May 7, 2007 at 12:06 pm

  Slouching,

  Bullying. That is a tough one. I was bullied. Hard. I was a short kid my whole life, and I had a mouth on me, boy howdy. So I was ripe pickings for the bullies.

  My suggestion is this: Don’t protect your kid. Instead, talk to your kid. Validate first, then talk to them about what they plan on doing about it. If they seem to have a good plan, let them run with it. And tell them, repeatedly, that you would physically kick the crap out of the bully, that it’s not the best thing in the long run. Kids have to learn to fight their own battles, no matter how awful. And another thing, kids pay attention to the victim as well. If a bully’s victim gets Mom or Dad to step in, the victim is derided, and the situation gets worse.

  In fact, that’s going to be my next column, so thanks for the suggestion.

• Tere // May 7, 2007 at 12:29 pm

  True words, Stu, but hard to practice! I just CAN’T let my son bounce all over the couch, because even if part of me thinks he’ll learn from the fall, the other (Louder) part of me thinks, but what if that fall breaks his neck or cracks his head? I wouldn’t be able to live with myself. I have more thoughts on this mindset, but will save it for my next post!

• Lara Gallagher // May 7, 2007 at 1:26 pm

  Great thoughts Stu!

  We try to do this with our kids too. We don’t go running to them every time they skin their knee but we do comfort them when they come to us.

• Stu Mark // May 8, 2007 at 8:29 am

  Tere,

  Age-appropriate rescuing in certain circumstances makes sense. Yeah, if they’re an infant, you put pillows on the floor next to the bed. If they’re toddlers, you let them get close to the street, but rescue them before they become mashed potatoes. When they are 16, you save your pennies for those wonderful “just-in-case” moments, like, oh, I don’t know… Bail!

  So, I’m not saying this (or anything I preach) is hard-and-fast. You’re a parent, you can tell the difference.

  But back to your son and bouncing on the couch. Depends how old he is. If he’s old enough to stand on the couch by himself, and jump by himself, and he looks like he has control, teach him how to fall properly (aim for your butt), warn him of the pain that will ensue after a hard landing, offer him a pillow on the floor if you like, but let him bounce on the couch.

  Obviously, that’s just my opinion. At our house, my son is a daredevil. So when he started skateboarding, we made sure he wore pads and a helmet. Once he was able to skate, we taught him how to fall properly (don’t try to save yourself with your hands, instead, sit down as fast as possible, and then roll as you’re falling). One day he discovered that pads and a helmet aren’t cool (I think they are, but I’m 40, he’s a teenager). So I told him, “You should wear a helmet, but you know what happens if you land hard without one, so go and do what you think is best. If you crack your head open, we’ve got insurance, but every time you go to the hospital, our rates go up, so don’t make it a habit.” I am telling you, he’s not worn his helmet since (other than if he goes to school) and he’s only wiped out a time or two, and he’s always ended up no worse than a little scraped, with a sore butt.

  And that’s just my version of parenting. Everyone’s different, and we all do our best. So if anybody wants to take me to task for not enforcing the helmet rule, go right ahead.

• hedra // May 8, 2007 at 9:27 am

  Head trauma is a big hairy no-no in our house. So far, the un-cool factor has easily been suppressed by discussion about what happens to people with head trauma, in detail (an uncle worked in a head trauma clinic until he couldn’t bear the despair anymore). Nothing like the idea of losing the ability to speak, or swallow, or make jokes, or recognize people you love, or remember things you said a few minutes ago, or even be *aware* that you are not who you used to be… :shudder: Head trauma steals yourself from yourself. Serious major no-no. No amount of insurance is enough to bring back the child who was lost when their brain was injured, even if you still have this other unknown child who is hauntingly like the child who you used to have. (off soapbox now!)

  Our solution for the eventual ‘no wear helmet’ thing is twofold - 1) serious efforts to set them up to resist peer pressure (works for one child, not for another), and 2) they have to prove their case before they can do it. The latter is what my mom did with me and my sibs. You want to do something I don’t wish you to do, prove your case. Present a logical, well-grounded argument for proceeding. With references, if it has a possible lifetime risk, thanks. You want to smoke, research the lifetime risks and (heh) benefits of smoking. You want to skateboard without pads and helmet, research it and present your case. And if you can do it and win a rational, logical debate on the subject, you win the right to do it. I know one other family who did this, and funny how the interviewing lifetime smokers killed all urge for the teen to start smoking… something about finding large numbers of them in treatment for lung issues…

  For me, that meant that when I wanted to go to China for 5 weeks when I was a teen, I knew that I needed to do the groundwork, figure out every area of concern my mom would have in advance, and answer every concern. I didn’t even ask before I researched and presented my case. Passport, visa, shots, money, all worked out in advance, before I even broached the subject. She brought up a few minor concerns, but I had a well-thought-out and solid answer for each. She was left with ‘well, have a good time’. And she started trotting that story out almost immediately with her peers, in my hearing, with great pride. Same when my little brother wanted to drive 23 hours to a concert with a bunch of friends. He had one gap, that was where to stay, but she wisely gave him some ideas for where to look for cheap housing on the fly (church affiliation, woo!), and off he went to answer that concern.

  All this was only a few years after my mom told me what Stu said here, in her words… I vividly recall standing in front of her bedroom door, bawling my eyes out over some early-teen-boyfriend issue, and begging her to just tell me what I should do. She got tears in her eyes and said, “The hardest thing you will *ever* do is to watch your child struggle and do nothing. It is also the most important thing you will ever do. This is for you to decide, and I cannot make the choice for you.” I was devastated. But I felt curiously strong, at the same time. I made a so-so decision, blew a few more, but carried on, and learned.

  I learned the same lesson with my oldest child, when I watched my DH encourage him in some infant coordination task that was making him scream with frustration. My DH didn’t rescue him, didn’t remove the object that was drawing all the rage, just stayed in there with him, commiserating and talking it out. I was sure he (DH that is) was about to learn a lesson - you just have to help them sometimes - take away the toy, change the situation, SOMETHING to end their misery! But instead, it was me standing there with egg on my face when our son calmed himself down and tried again, and this time, succeeded for a few seconds. Um, oops? I don’t know if I heard my mom’s voice echo in my ears at that point, but I sure have heard her many times since!

  They learn to trust themselves when we trust them. They also learn where the boundaries are. And it is still INTENSELY difficult to step back and let them fail or succeed on their own at things they’re attempting.

  I’d definitely add in the finesse and thinking requirement of proving their case. Note that this becomes a MAJOR PAIN IN THE REAR for a while, since they’ll be arguing cases left and right (and badly!) until they learn to assess what they know and do not know. Teaching them how to argue the case may even be needed for some of the kids (but most seem to be born knowing how to do it, LOL!). The goal isn’t to have it all be easy now, free from annoyance and friction. The goal, for me, is to not have to fret and worry about their capability and competence as adults. This is just boot camp for that. I can’t count the number of times that being confident in my ability to argue a case (something my mom *also* let me try at and fail) has helped. Not the least of which being knowing how to handle challenges at my thesis presentation. Thanks, mom!

• Stu Mark // May 8, 2007 at 10:52 am

  hedra,

  Wow, thank you so much for your thoughtful comment. Your story about your mom really got to me.

  As for the head-trauma issue, yeah, I admit that my priorities are messed up sometimes, and sometimes I am a marshmallow. My kids are cute, I mean, hyper-super-crazy cute, so I give in too often. And helmets are important, they save lives, I get it. In fact, my son will not be a fan of yours this afternoon, as you have given me fuel to engage him in the “Wear Your Helmet” conversation.

  I love your legal system-based freedoms that you provide your kids. We do the same at our house. We are strong Constitutional Conservatives in our house (which means that we’re Progressives who think that the Constitution is to be taken as law by all Americans (and that means I have to hope that enough Americans get their heads wrapped around amending the 2nd Amendment). So freedom of speech is sacred, as is Due Process (Trial By Jury is kinda tough at times, but as my kids say, “Parenting Happens”). My wife and I become a defense attorney to the other’s prosecuting attorney, depending on the situation. So, yeah, I dig that. I think it’s huge in a number of ways - it teaches basic human rights at an early age, it teaches self-respect, self-empathy, and respect for fairness, among others.

  Sincerely, thanks for the comment, and for reading.

• hedra // May 8, 2007 at 11:50 am

  I’ll see your hyper-crazy-cute and raise you one self-contained-storyteller-with-profound-insights, one green-eyed-blonde-with-must-pinch-cheeks-who-is-all-about-LOVE, and a set of doe-eyed-dark-lashed-impish-and-sly twins. Likely a draw, there, since we’ll both vote our own cutest, but … well, I do understand.

  And, Yeah, I marshmallow, too.
  I’ll give you my handy-dandy-marshmallow-proofer, though. Apply as needed: We have three rules in our house, only. And three measures of action. Everything else flows from these directly.

  The three rules: Safe, Respectful, Kind. In that order. Because you can be kind without being either safe or respectful, but it is wrong. You can be Safe and kind of blow the respectful and kind thing but be forgiven (scream and yank kid out of in front of oncoming car - not kind or respectful, but boy howdy on safe!). So, first - is it safe? If yes, test for Respectful. If yes, test for Kind. If no at any point, the answer is no. This applies to the adults, as well as kids. QUICK easy measure of where to marshmallow. Just run it past the rules. Kind, fortunately, usually only takes a tweak in presentation, not action.

  And for actions: Effective, Prudent, Pure. Does it work well with minimum wasted effort? Does it have consequences beyond the immediate action that are greater than the benefits? Does it reflect who I am accurately and fully? Again, in order. There’s plenty of pure that is ineffective and imprudent (the path to h*ll, and good intentions…). There’s not a forgiveness issue here, as it is a self-measure, not an ‘other-measure’ - this is for them to decide their own course of action, starting around pre-teen and up. And hey, works for the parenting choices, too. If it don’t work, don’t do it (can’t count the number of parenting efforts I’ve had to discard because, well, I do them over and over and they really just do not work, at least not with my kids). If it has backlash or nasty side-effects, don’t do it. If it isn’t the kind of parent I beleive myself to be, don’t do it. Self-check, done.

  Bonus, using these has meant that I never hear ‘but I didn’t know I couldn’t…’ because they apply to EVERYTHING. And they actually will STOP doing things they’re not supposed to if I ask them to figure out whether they pass the three rules - I don’t tell them, I make them figure it out.

  It won’t stop all the marshmallowing, but it does help me prune out the marshmallowing on safety and respect issues… most of the time.

• hedra // May 8, 2007 at 12:31 pm

  Mine cute, too. (I’ll see your crazy-cute and raise you a set of doe-eyed-2-year-old-twins-with-impish-grins-and-ENORMOUS-lashes…)

  I marshmallow, too, by the way. Just never on head trauma. (And I find the ‘helmets save lives’ thing insufficiently motivating - ‘helmets prevent living a very different life than you expected, for a very long time, starting without warning’ is a better motivator, IMHO. Death is too vague for most kids, and is irrelevant to most teens - they’re immortal, no?)

  That said, the house rules don’t have much give. That’s easy, because there are only three rules: Safe, Respectful, Kind.

  That’s it. In order. And it includes parental actions. Filter one: Safe. If not, don’t. Filter two (if you make it past Safe): Respectful. Of yourself and others. If that passes, then Filter three: Kind. Because it isn’t all that much effort to make things kind, and it soooo improves the way we live together.

  Marsmallowing is quickly nixed by refusing to reverse the filter order. Cute generates lots of attempts to be kind without regard to the sequence of the filters. Strangely, so does the opposite - my kids at their worst seem to be able to get me to go straight to kind while bypassing respectful and safe at 90 miles an hour. Power whining… sigh.

  Bonus of the three rules approach: Compliance increases when you get them to figure out the filter results themselves - usually a quick mental check does it. We’re down to just saying, ‘Three rules?’ and the two who are over 5 going, ‘um, sorry, not Safe.’ (for the 2-year-olds, we’re still in ‘we don’t do that, it isn’t safe’ world.) When they figure it out themselves, there’s a lot less resentment of the bossiness that comes with enforcement, and they’ve got a basis for presenting it to others if they feel they must. AND they’ve got the basis for adjusting the activity so that it passes the Rules (we get this a lot - ‘Can I leap off the sofa if I put the bean-bag chairs in front? That would be safe, right?’). Helps me filter what battles to fight, and applying the rules to me means that hey, I do actually let them try more things, and fail or succeed, because it is disrespectful and unkind to deny them the joys of an unexpected success, or the deep pride of having overcome a disaster.

• Erika // May 8, 2007 at 2:47 pm

  Oh, this is such a thoughtful thread. As I was reading your post about head trauma, hedra, I was thinking, “first take the boy to volunteer at a head trauma unit in the hospital, *then* let him decide.” And then I read your smoking example. It’s hard to imagine without a reference point what your mom or dad means when they just say, “You’ll be sorry if you do that.” We also have the big three at our house: Safe, Healthy, Happy. When my 4-yo wants to do something that brings out the marshmallow in me (and I am a big softy) I tell her, “Mommy has three jobs. To keep you safe, to keep you healthy, and to let you do things that make you happy. In that order.” But I like your “respectful” and “kind”, too! Maybe my mission statement could be expanded… I am new to this blog (ref’d from Parent Hacks), but I will definitely keep reading…

• Jessica // May 8, 2007 at 8:26 pm

  I completely agree! I resist “saving” my daughter as much as possible. The upshot is that when she does get hurt she’s much faster to get over it and push us away so she can get on with whatever she was doing.
  It’s also heartening to see how much pride she takes in doing something on her own. She’s only two, but I can already see how this is helping to shape her self-confidence and self-esteem.

• hedra // May 9, 2007 at 6:17 am

  Sorry about the double-post (with re-write - it seemed to have gotten lost in the ether…).

  Same info, though (just tried to be shorter the second time, and just ended up making more long, LOL!). Sigh.

• hedra // May 9, 2007 at 6:26 am

  Erika, we use healthy and happy as extensions/reflections of the rules. Healthy is ’safe and respectful of your body’. And Happy comes from the kindness stuff, most of the time. Respectful can be hard for them to grasp, early on. Still, they’re learning it in preschool, so I guessed they could learn it at home, too. And your rules work perfectly as described - those are my job, too. Keep the kids Safe, Healthy, Happy are mom’s job. Safe, Respectful, Kind are THEIR jobs. You might be able to introduce it that way, without having to change your setup at all. (We just say ‘mom is the boss of your health.’ - I like your version better!)

  And no, this sure doesn’t make my kids unusual or perfect. This morning: came into the bedroom to find the oldest pinning his younger brother by the head to the bed, younger brother going ‘mmmf! hey! mmmf!’ Um. Safe? Respectful? Kind? Got a stare in return. Yes or no? Glum look. ‘No.’ Any of them pass? ‘No.’ Then? ’stop.’ Thank you. Oy. Still totally age-typical.

• Tracy // May 9, 2007 at 9:26 pm

  I had a boss who’s son was arrested for having a great big bag of pot. This was especially distressing to her as they belong to a religion that forbids drug use. She paid for his lawyer. One of the best around. Ran all over town getting “letters of recommendation” from former teachers and community members to get him probation rather than jail time. She even jumped through hoops to get special permission to take him out of the country for the holidays while he was on probation.

  Guess who violated his probation and got arrested with another big bag of pot?

  The second time around she was wise enough to make him pay for his own lawyer.

• RookieMomHeather // May 9, 2007 at 10:03 pm

  This is great food for thought. Just today, I was scooping up my almost-two-year-old after a fall. I like the sentiments you express, but I’m a little scared to implement them. Ok, a lot.

  Can I keep cutting the grapes? Holding hands in the parking lot? Near the pool?

  When will I know when to let go of these things?!

• Whitney // May 10, 2007 at 2:58 am

  Heather-

  I still hold hands (esp with the 8 yr old) in parking lots, although I gave up cutting grapes between ages 3 and four. Remember- this is a gradual, lifetime process of letting them learn without inflicting too much bodily harm, you got a ways to go before pulling back some- just remember, if they aren’t doing any chores at all by age 5 or six (and I suggest getting them to help in little ways like helping to put toys away as soon as they are able) you need to start thinking about where they can start helping and contributing to the household, even if it’s just sorting socks, putting shoes where they belong, or helping to set the table.

• hedra // May 10, 2007 at 7:50 am

  Heather, don’t get stuck in thinking it is all safety-oriented things that we’re talking about.

  Road crossing, choking hazards, helmets, those are fairly autocratically decided in our house (even if there’s at least an appearance of fairness - I don’t actually think they’re likely to be able to mount a good defense for biking without helmets, I just think they should get the chance to try).

  More of the practice in letting them fail is in the daily dull stuff. What they want to drink with dinner, how they dress, doing things for themselves that are challenging and maybe in their 70-85% success range. If they can always do it, or always get help doing, then they end up with 100% as the only sane goal, and despair if they fall below that. Or they end up never aiming for their best. Or other head games.

  One of the things I’ve found is that where I struggle to let them fail the most is where MY issues are - Time, and Worry.

  Time - if it is going to be faster if I do it, …. urgh, I still need to let them do it. Get dressed, put on shoes, get in car, pick out dishes, get out toys, put things away, all of that. I can fight them into what I want them to wear, or coerce them into thinking it matters what other people think of their clothes, or I can let them choose, and dress, themselves. It takes a long time to get dressed the first couple of weeks they do it. But then it gets much better. If I just put more time in there for them to do it themselves, fail or no fail (and often fail and struggle and fail and struggle and ask for help and reject help and fail again). It is a matter of just planning the time so I don’t get frantic and rescue them just so I don’t feel pinched for time.

  Worry - the ‘will my child turn out to be a wimp/quitter/pushover/nerd/etc. if I don’t just fix this right now thing. Continue that activity, or quit because they’re unhappy? That’s a tough one - which one is the rescue? And from what? From future issues, or present unhappiness? The non-rescue there is not ‘quit’ or ’stay’, but talking and being a resource and then letting them guide the decision and live with the consequences. Miss the team? Well, we talked it out, and it was your decision. Not a rescue.

  Yeah, this gets complicated as they get older, but we all flouder through it. And we all fail, and struggle, and do it better next time, and hope that we had enough resources to draw on that we didn’t blow it totally, just somewhat. I know I learn faster when I’ve failed in parenting, too.

• Chad // May 20, 2007 at 8:42 am

  Just want to say thanks for this blog post and the great comment thread — our daughter is still under a year, but the question still comes up (finger-pinching, etc.), and agree that the “not saving” philosophy is a valuable one. Thanks, hedra, for some great rules that I think I and many others may take to heart.

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